This episode is part of The Lies We Tell Ourselves Series
Our guest today is Rho Thomas, Attorney, Financial Coach and Host of the Wealthyesque podcast. Rho and I talk about the importance of mindset shifts with your money, the possibility of being debt free, value based budgeting, identifying your why, and the one number that is more important than the two we focus on most often. Rho also shares a couple of books that were game changers on her journey:
Lie: The Vision is Too Big: I’ll Never Live In My Purpose
Lie: My Happiness Is Based On My Appearance + I’ll Always Be on a Diet – The Power of a New Mindset With Evelyn LeVasseur
Connect with Tiffany
Follow Tiffany on Instagram
Email Tiffany: Hello@TiffanyHuffExperience.com
Hey beacon welcome home to your bounce back blueprint community Podcast, where you are challenged to do and have God’s best as you thrive on your journey from setback to success. I’m your bounce back guide, Tiffany Huff-Strothers. And I’ll be guiding you on the journey by sharing tips, tools, and the T on how I was able to bounce back from escaping death, healing from heartbreak and finding hope in homelessness. And then I wrote an award winning book all about it, and shout out to God. Ever since I was courageous enough to share my story. My life and the lives of women around the world have been forever changed. And as a member of the bounce back blueprint community, I’m called to teach you to do the same. So grab your journal, and let’s build this blueprint. Hey, beacon Hey, I am so excited about our guest who is here to help us build the blueprint this week. We are continuing our series The lies we tell ourselves, and today’s a lie that we are breaking through is the lie that I will always be in debt.
Tiffany: Today’s guest is Rho Thomas, she has become a very dear friend of mine. And before I bring her on, I’m going to tell you a little bit about Rho Thomas. She’s an attorney and financial coach who believes that true wealth is having control of your time, she helps lawyers make intentional lifestyle and money decisions to regain control of their time, build wealth, and live the lives of freedom and choice they deserve. She has been featured in outlets such as Yahoo, finance, refinery, 29, and Mike and host the Wealthyesque podcast, which explores how lawyers can achieve lifestyle freedom by reframing their mindset and managing their money to achieve financial independence. Thank you so much for being here. And welcome to the podcast, Rho.
Rho: Thank you for having me, Tiffany. It’s a pleasure.
Tiffany: Likewise, before we get into busting down this lie, can you please introduce yourself to our audience behind or beyond your bio?
Rho: Sure, oh, my name is Rho Thomas. I am a wife, a mother, a Christian. And as you mentioned, a lawyer and financial coach, and I am on this journey to just take back control of my time and really build an intentional life. I think this pandemic has shown a lot of us how we just been kind of going through the motions of life, or at least I won’t speak for anyone else. At least that was the case for me. And so I am just really trying to make sure that I’m making intentional decisions for my life. And part of that is making intentional decisions with my money, and I am teaching others to do the same.
Tiffany: Wow. Now that’s a lot. But because I know a little bit about your journey and your story, I know that you haven’t necessarily always been on this path. So can you share with us a little bit about your journey and how you’ve gotten to the place where you not only want to be debt free yourself, and know that it’s possible, but you’re also helping others along the way?
Rho: Yeah, so about four years ago, my husband and I had our first child, and we had been just kind of going through life, you know, doing our careers and all of that I am a lawyer, as you mentioned, I’m in a big law firm. And at the time, the billable hour requirement at my firm was 1900 hours and our bill 2100 easily, right, I was doing all the things, I’m very type A I want to do the best and all of that. But when I had my child, I realized that the life that I had been living, right, the hours that I had been putting in at work would not be conducive to being the kind of mom I want it to be. And so I was talking to my husband about it. And we had talked a little bit about, like paying off debt and things like that before, but we didn’t really take any serious action toward doing it. But you know, we talked about the lives that we want it to live the you know, kind of parents that we want it to be and realize that the way that our work schedules were just wouldn’t allow us to do that. And so we decided to take a look at our money and see what we were working with. And we found that we were over $670,000 in debt with a negative $342,000 net worth.
Tiffany: And so Wait, wait, can you run that number back again? How many $1,000 a day?
Rho: Yes, $670,000. And as you can imagine, I was going right back to work. I wasn’t gonna do the same thing that I was doing. I was able to, to cut back a little bit. I didn’t have to go so far over the minimum and that kind of thing. But I wasn’t able to cut back the way that I had envisioned and so finding our finances in the state that they were, it was really a shock for us because we had been what we thought doing well with our money, right? Like we were paying off our credit cards on time, we were paying all of our minimums on time, we were even saving a little bit, you know, saving for retirement, all of that. But looking at our finances, we had this like, well over half a million dollars in debt. And so seeing the changes that we wanted to make with our lives, and seeing how the debt was a hindrance to that is what set us on this path to pay off debt. And then you also asked about how I got into helping others do it. Like as we were paying off our debt, and I was talking to some of my colleagues at work and at other firms, I’m hearing the same story, different iterations, but the same story of wanting to make some sort of change in their lives, whether it was leaving the firm going to a smaller firm, or another job that paid less, or just doing a reduced or flex schedule, but feeling like they couldn’t afford to do it. And so that drove me to want to help teach people the things that we’ve been learning on our debt journey.
Tiffany: That’s so good. And you know, part of what I hear you saying is that you had to come you had come to a point in your life where you had to choose whether you were going to continue to believe the lie that you know, debt is normal, I’ll always be in debt, or you’re going to make the decisions and do the work so that you could actually live the life you envision.
Rho: Yeah, that’s absolutely right. That’s absolutely right. And, you know, my husband had actually said something just like that, like, everybody has debt, it is just the way that life is. And he was not very interested in the changes that I wanted to make. Before we had our kids. He wasn’t very interested, because I was talking a lot about, like what we needed to do, but I was not explaining the why behind it. And I don’t think I was able to really articulate it until we had a kid and we could talk about the life that we wanted to live and how we envisioned that life looking. And then seeing Okay, this debt over here is what’s keeping us from doing that.
Tiffany: I think that’s so powerful, because it’s almost like, I mean, I know that debt can be a burden, but literally living a life in bondage, like literally envisioning the life you can have with debt, because you just feel like it’s normal, versus really envisioning the life that you desire, without debt and doing all of the work to build it, I think, Well, I know you’re not alone, and that people think it’s normal. And so they do the first, which is to envision the best possible life with the debt. And I think it’s amazing that now that you are on this journey, you’re able to help other people envision that life, what would you say is one of the biggest challenges that people have with breaking through the block that this is actually possible?
Rho: I think the biggest challenge is mindset, right? Like you said, the block, that limiting belief that everyone has debt is normal, I’m always going to have debt. If you don’t change that mindset, then you’re not going to change the actions that you’re taking, or start taking action, if you’re not taking action at all, and then you’re not going to see the results that you want. And so just seeing the possibility was huge for us. Like when we started looking into our finances, we started looking into how to pay it off. And we came across people who were paying their debts off in, you know, these really short periods of time, one guy, I think he was a Harvard MBA or something like that. He paid off like $90,000, in less than a year. You know, we saw a couple, both of whom were teachers pay their house off in five years. And just like all of these accomplishments that people were making with their money that we didn’t even know was possible, right? Like, the way that I learned about money was, you know, you get this debt, you pay your minimums, you know, on time, and then you just keep that loan until the term is up, like paying debt off early. never even occurred to me because it wasn’t something that I had seen.
Tiffany: Right? I think that’s so powerful, because you’re right, if we don’t know something is possible, then it’s likely that we may never attempt it, right? Because there’s that fear of being the first one or of course, the unknown possibility. So I’m curious as to you know, how over the course of the last four years being on this journey has really transformed your life and of course, the life of your children.
Rho: It has completely transformed our lives. We have paid off over $400,000 of debt. We hit a positive, right? Yes $400,000 of debt, we hit a positive net worth for the first time at the end of 2019. We hit a six figure net worth last year. And we’re just continuing to chop away at that debt, we’ve paid off all of my student loans. And a huge chunk of my husband’s I didn’t go through the breakdown for you. But that 670,000 was mostly student loans about 200,000 was our mortgage, we had like a $10,000 car loan. And then I had 100,000. And my husband had 350 or so 1000. That ballooned up to 370,000, with all of the interest while he was in residency. And so just chopping away at that debt has really improved our ability to make changes in our lives. Most recently, for me, I dropped down to about 50% at work during the pandemic, because I’m home with our kids who are now four and almost two. And I was trying to balance full time practice, I have my own business, and then also being a full time caretaker to the kids while my husband is working outside of the home. And I just could not imagine being able to make that kind of change four years ago, like have we not done this work on our finances, I wouldn’t have been able to do it.
Tiffany: That is so awesome. I’m so inspired. And I’m so inspired about the fact that I know someone who’s actually doing it, which I think is completely different than reading it about it on a blog or hearing about it on CNN or msn money or something. When you really know someone who has been in a certain place and is on the journey, and then seeing the progress, the possibility becomes even more real. But I also know that there are people who feel like making this decision and developing a plan means that they have to give up everything they love and kind of be prisoners of their lives until the day is paid off. So can you give a little insight into how you’ve been able to continue to live, but also be intentional about your goal in this debt freedom journey?
Rho: Yeah, I think like what you’re talking about is really pervasive in the media. Like when we hear people talking about finance, and personal finance, and budgeting and all of that, it’s always about this deprivation, you got to cut this and you got to do that. And that’s not my story, right? Like, that doesn’t resonate with me. And so we are very big on value based spending, which means I’m looking at the things that I truly care about. And I’m going to spend on those things. So like, I’ll still buy my nice shoes, or, you know, fashion or whatever. My husband loves cars, we actually got him a new car. But it was an SUV in 2019 when our second child was born, because my husband was driving a coupe at the time. And his car was I think, like 13 years old at that time. And we needed something bigger for our second kid and he wanted an SUV, and he wanted to upgrade a little bit. So we got an infinity SUV. But the compromise was that we didn’t get it brand new. So I think it was three years old when we bought it. And that drastically reduced the cost of it, right? So it’s not about like you have to drive beaters and only eat ramen and you know, walk everywhere. It’s about spending on the things that you care about. So we spent on that car, but my husband doesn’t care about clothes. So his fashion, you know, budget is much lower than mine might be
Tiffany: glad you shared that. It doesn’t have to be like this prison. And it doesn’t have to be this way or no way. And one thing that you said that really piqued my interest was this value based budgeting. And I think that value based budgeting goes back to why you even made that decision because you had a certain way that you wanted to parent, the value of being a present parent was really important to you. And that’s what helped you break through that lie and really take action. So what might be some of the values that you see showing up in the budgets of your clients or some that people who want to initiate this journey might consider
Rho: when we do those exercises about going through what you value and what’s really important to you. I typically have my clients go through and list out the 10 things that bring them the most joy and the 10 things that they value. And usually it’ll be things like their family, having you know, free time. It might be things like enjoying music or good food, that kind of thing. And so then when we are crafting a budget then we make sure that for instance with the Good Food example Make sure that you’ve got a nice budget line item for the good food that you enjoy, you know, maybe it’s restaurants or things like that. But then if it if your budget or your spending is showing that you’re spending a lot of money in this area that you don’t care about, that then is taking away from the financial goals that you have, or even the spending that you want to do in areas that you do care about, then we can cut that out. And I think that the issue is, most of the time, we’re not looking at that we are just spending money, because this is what people spend money on, right, we’re getting the new car just because oh, it’s five years, I need a new car. Now, I need a bigger house because I got a raise. Most of the time, we engage in what we call lifestyle creep, where we just start spending more money because we’re making more money. But we’re not being intentional about it, we’re not paying attention to whether it be things we’re spending on or things that we actually care about, or if we’re spending because we see our neighbors or our friends or our co-workers spending on those items. And that is the key, recognizing what you actually care about spending on that and not worrying about what other people are doing.
Tiffany: That is so, so good. And again, it takes us back to the beginning. And I think that’s what’s so important about what you’re sharing in this journey is that it all works together, right? Once you decide that another life is possible for you, then your decisions that you make about your spending and otherwise have to be a reflection of that decision. So I think you do such a great job of speaking to the process itself. And though it’s not easy, it’s possible, what would you say to the person who says, okay, I’ve created this value based budget, and I’ve been working on it, but it’s hard for me to stick to it, or I’m struggling with the amounts that I’ve placed in certain areas.
Rho: So that is a typical issue that I see, a lot of times when people come across personal finance, or they come across this idea of value based spending, or they see somebody’s story. They’re like, yes, I’m going to get on a budget, I’m going to just slash all of these numbers, I’m going to do this, I’m going to do that they get really gung ho about it. And the issue there is you’re not starting from where you are. And so I always tell my clients to do a three month look back, let’s look at what you’ve actually spent in each of these areas for the last three months, and then we can adjust from there. So as opposed to arbitrarily saying I’m going to spend $100, on groceries, I’m gonna look at what I’ve actually spent, Oh, it looks like my groceries are more like $500 a month. So maybe my budget is 500 or 450, or something like that, if I wanted to rein it in. And that way, when you’re starting from where you actually are, then you are much more likely to stick to it as opposed to trying to do this wholesale overhaul of your budget. And really, really, you know, restrict yourself. Because when it feels like deprivation, you’re not going to stick to it.
Tiffany: And I think that last piece that you said is what the key is we do we create budgets and we feel like we’re depriving ourselves almost like the whole diet thing, right? You don’t eat something and then you end up binging on it. The same is true with our money. And so I guess it’s that constant. Well, it’s the commitment, but it’s also that constant, reflecting like you said, looking at it for three months, and then perhaps after three months with a certain budget, do you encourage your clients to reflect again
Rho: and we look at how they actually are handling the budget that they’ve been doing. And if they’re making progress on their goals, because if the budget is working, then we don’t need to fix it right. But if they’re still having issues either sticking to it, or they’re not making the progress that they want to on their goals, then we can reconfigure it. Something that I do want to add though going back to what we talked about with deprivation is I think it’s really important to have some sort of entertainment, you know, line item, something for fun, because I think a lot of times when people are trying to get their finances together that’s one of the first things to go and that’s a mistake because if you don’t feel like you’re having fun if you feel like you can’t do anything that you want to do, then like you said you you’ll stick to it maybe for a little while and then you’ll go binge on you know, buying all the things are going to all the places, pre COVID but go into all the places or whatever spending a lot of money that you wouldn’t have spent had you allocated something some money towards fun from jump.
Tiffany: That’s good. That’s so good. And you’re right I can remember in the course of preparing to buy my house In creating that budget with the counselor I was working with and thinking, this is really unrealistic for me to say I’m not going to spend money in any of these areas, versus saying, Let me decrease maybe the amount of money I’m spending it with yours.
Rho: I think the second most popular is not being on the same page with your spouse, there’s a lot of times one spouse will come across these topics, these principles and be really excited about it. That was my story, right? Like, I’m like, oh, man, they’re paying off this debt in less than a year, they’re paying off the, you know, houses in five years, we got to do this. And my husband was like, I’m not really feeling that. And so we have to, when we are presenting these things to our spouses, our significant others, our partners, make sure that we’re approaching it in the right way. And that goes back to something that we were talking about earlier with the why behind what you want to do, and not just the what, you know, not just we’re going to pay off all this debt. And we’re going to cut this, you know, from the budget, and we’re going to do this and save this and whatever. But the why kind of dreaming with your spouse about what your lives could look like if you achieved x financial goal, and getting their buy in from that finding out what they want to do, like what their goals are for when you reach the goal. And then you’re able to go from there and make these budget adjustments and not feel like you’re having this tension or like this, this back and forth pulling with your spouse.
Tiffany: Gotcha. Do you suggest celebrating in any particular way, when you reach a certain milestone or when you’ve paid off a certain amount or maybe a certain debt that’s on your list? Do you suggest celebrating?
Rho: Absolutely celebrate, I don’t have any particular suggestion for what to do. I think that that is personal. But I do think that you’ve got to break up your debt, or whatever your financial goal is, it could be debt, it could be savings, whatever it is. But if you’ve if you’re trying to pay off $100,000, or you’re trying to save up for this downpayment, or whatever, you want to break it up into smaller milestones that you’ll hit more regularly, because then as you hit those milestones and you celebrate, it’s kind of a signal to your brain, like, okay, yes, this is working. And it prompts you to keep going right? You, you’re motivated to stay on track, because you’re seeing that you’re hitting your goals on here. Similarly, the method that I recommend for paying off debt is called the debt snowball. And the way that it works is you list your debts from smallest balance to largest balance, and you pay them off in that order. And just like what we talked about with celebrating the smaller milestones, typically, smaller debts are going to be paid much quicker, right? Like, for us, although we had 670,000, our smallest debt was like 15 $100. And so we were able to pay that off really quickly. And you’re seeing these wins really quickly, which then motivates you to keep going like, okay, yes, this is working, I’m seeing these debts being paid off. So anything that you can do like that, to motivate yourself, when you’ve got a long journey ahead is a plus.
Tiffany: That’s good. And of course, we got to make sure we budget for our celebrations, right so that we can enjoy them accordingly without feeling like they’re setting us back.
Okay, exactly. I completely agree with that.
Tiffany: So in one of your recent podcast episodes, you shared that there are two numbers that people ignore on this journey that largely can strongly impact the way that the journey goes and how you evaluate it. Can you share what those two numbers are?
Rho: Well, I know I talked recently about how there are two numbers that we pay a lot of attention to that aren’t as relevant, and then one that that we tend not to pay attention to.
Yeah, I said it backwards. Pardon me?
Rho: Yeah. So the one that we tend not to pay too much attention to is our net worth. And that is when you add up everything that you own, all of your account balances your retirement accounts, your savings, the value of your house, like all of that kind of thing, your assets, and subtract out the total of everything that you owe. So all of your student loans, your car, loan, your mortgage, any other loans that you have, when you subtract those debts from the assets, then you get your net worth. And going back to when we were talking about my story, our net worth was negative. That’s possible, right? Like we had more in debt than we had in our accounts. And so when we’re not paying attention to our net worth, we could either see that it’s not going up at all, or it’s staying the same. Both of those things. Ces are showing that you’re not making the financial progress that you probably want to be making. Now the numbers that we tend to pay attention to are things like our credit score, and our income, or you know, trying to reach a six figure income, that’s always a big milestone. But the thing with your credit score is it just shows your behavior with debt. So it shows that you are paying your bills on time, or that you, you know, have had credit for a while that you are not maxing out your cards, that kind of thing. So having a high credit score is good for some things, right? If you’re trying to get new credit, you need a mortgage, you need a loan for something, the credit score is good for that. But you can have a high credit score, like my husband and I, when we sat down to look at our finances and found that we were over $670,000 in debt, we had low 800 credit scores, because we were paying our bills on time. So the credit score is not a good indicator of how you’re doing financially. The same with the six figure income, my husband and I both have six figure incomes. And at that time, well, my husband at that time did not but our household income was six figures at the time. But we were over $670,000 in debt. And that’s because your income having this six figure income does not it’s not a good indicator of your financial success, your financial progress if you’re not managing it well. And we had been paying our debts off by paying the minimums on our debts, you know, saving a little bit, but we weren’t really paying attention to all of our money situation. And so there’s a lot of money that we were just wasting, quite honestly, because we were saving like, you know, our, our 15 20% however much it was. But the rest of it, I couldn’t tell you what happened to it. And so paying attention to that net worth and making sure that it is increasing, is a really good indicator that you are doing well with your money.
Tiffany: That was such a good lesson. And I hope that people are taking notes, because you’re right, a lot of people get so caught up in that credit score number. And like you said, it reflects a habit, it does not necessarily reflect the state of your financial well being or the lack thereof, I’m so glad that you wrote that down, and you did it so eloquently.
Thank you very much.
Rho: You’re welcome. You have a way with that. So I want to make sure that everybody is following along, we really want to first of all accept or recognize that there is possibility to live a life that is debt free, you got to get in touch with your why you’ve got to know your values and keep them in mind when you’re creating that budget. Be conscious of your net worth, is there any other key tip you would offer to somebody who is either on the journey and need some encouragement, or somebody who is considering this journey and needs some of that foresight,I think the number one thing is to give yourself grace, you know, to not beat yourself up for being in a situation that you want to improve like it’s okay. Also remember that it took awhile for you to get here, right? Like we got into all of our debt over the course of multiple years. And so it’s going to take a little while to get out of it. Don’t expect it to happen overnight. But if you just keep being consistent, keep taking those steps in the right direction, then eventually you will get there. So just give yourself some grace, and keep taking action and you’re going to do it.
Tiffany: I also I’m curious to hear from your perspective, when someone is looking for a financial coach like yourself, someone to support them through this process, developing a budget, and all of those things that you do. What should they expect from that relationship? Because I know that this is a very intimate thing to share and to be completely transparent and honest with to get the coaching. So how might one prepare for a relationship with a financial coach? And what does that look like?
Rho: I think to prepare for the relationship with the financial coach, you’ve got to make sure that you are ready to be open and honest with your coach. As you said, this is a very intimate part of most people’s lives. I think people are more reticent to talk about their money than they are to talk about their weight than to talk about their sex lives. Like for some reason we carry a lot of shame around finances. So you’re going to be open and honest with your coach. Your coach can help you as your coach is going to be there to help guide you, we might educate you if there are some topics that you are just not familiar with. And then we also help you to see how your thinking is impacting the results that you’re getting. Because as we mentioned at the outset, your mindset is everything to do with making progress and your finances. And so having that outside objective third party who’s looking in helping you to make these decisions and showing you how your thinking is impacting things is
Tiffany: he agree, so whenever you first started, or when you decided that you were going to make this shift, or you wanted to learn more, you mentioned that you were reading a lot of things and seeing a lot of success stories. Were there any books or blogs in particular that were instrumental in your journey.
Rho: So two of my favorite books, your money or your life by Vicki Robin, and Joe Dominguez, she actually, Vicki Robin actually put out an updated version last year or the year before, and her co author passed a while back, but she has updated it for you know, more current times. But it talks so much about looking at your money as a reflection of your time, your life energy, because most of us are trading time for money. And so when you’re thinking about purchases, she encourages you to think about how much time that purchase represents. So it really changed the way that I thought about my money. The second one is called The Millionaire Next Door, it’s by Thomas Stanley. And that one just talks about how the people who you think are millionaires tend not to be unless it’s like, you know, the super Uber rich, you know, top 1% people. But a lot of times millionaires are your everyday person, it could be your neighbor or somebody that you work with who you wouldn’t expect to be millionaires because they don’t look like the stereotypical millionaire. But that’s because most millionaires in America made their wealth or built their wealth by practicing more. I don’t know what the word is that I want to say here. Most millionaires in America live simple lives, they live in normal houses, they drive normal cars, and they are just practicing building wealth by making good money decisions.
Tiffany: That makes sense. I’ve heard of the Millionaire Next Millionaire Next Door, but I’ve not heard of your money or your life, I’ll make sure to link to both of those in the show notes. And, um, before I let you go, I wanted to know is there any quote or scripture that you leaned on during this journey or that you constantly refer back to when you are challenged or get frustrated with the process?
Rho: Or, and it says, whether you think you can or think you can’t, you’re right. And that goes back to what we were talking about with the mindset piece of believing that this thing is possible. And if you believe that it’s possible, then you’re going to take actions that get you there. So that quote is big in my life, I always refer to that quote.
Tiffany: And I think about the lie at the root, right? If you believe you can get out of debt, then you will and a really great place to wrap up the episode. But before we do, I would love for you to share how far you and your husband have come on this journey. I believe you said at the start that you were over $670,000 in debt. With a negative net worth. We know you said you have now a positive net worth but what about the debt? How far have you come in bringing that number down.
Rho: So we are just over $290,000 now and we are continuing to chip away at it. Our goal is to finish off my husband’s student loans which are at I think 100,000. We want to finish that off in the next 12 to 18 months and then we will work on our mortgage.
Tiffany: That is so inspiring. So commendable. Congratulations. I’m so proud of you. And it’s so like I said encouraging for me and consistently reinforces that it’s possible when I see you posting your updates and sharing those tidbits about your journey for anyone who is listening that wants to connect with you further or potentially is interested in financial coaching. Where can she find you?
Rho: Yes, you can head to my website which is rhothomas.com. I’m also on Instagram at I am Rho Thomas and then you can catch me on the Wealthyesque podcast which you can find at rhttps://www.rhothomas.com/podcast/
Tiffany: I thought I’ll make sure to link to all of your context in the show notes. And I want to say thank you so much Rho for your time and being willing to share so transparently and so eloquently, I know that I’ve learned a lot, and I’m sure our community has as well. So thank you again for being here.
Rho: Thank you for having me
Tiffany: It was a lot of fun. It was quite the pleasure. Okay, I don’t know about you. But for me row really came through all things value based budgeting. And during that three months look back. And really knowing the difference and the level of priority and importance for the credit score versus your net worth, honey. I know I’ll be listening to this episode more than once. And if you didn’t have your journal, then I recommend that you do too. The other thing I recommend is if you need support, if you need guidance, if you are challenged with breaking through this or any of the other lies that we have been digging into during this series, if you’re struggling with clarity, or where to begin to even pick up the pieces that have fallen as a result of living by these lies, I would love to help you. And I actually am accepting new coaching clients, you can grab the link in the show notes bit.li slash your bounce back guide and set up a time for us to chat and see if us working together would be a great fit to help you be and do and have all that God has called you to. I am so excited to hear from you about what you’re thinking about this episode and the other episodes in this series. You know you can leave a review, you can take a screenshot and hit me up on Instagram or Facebook at the Tiffany huff and of course, if you would prefer you can shoot me an email. My email is also in the show notes. I will not hold you much longer. However, I will leave you with this. God is not going to play you but if you continue to live your life in bondage to the lie that you will always be in debt. I promise you says you are playing yourself. Be blessed